There may be various complications, but really my biggest concern, which has been allayed I think based on the limited information we have, is that the IRS can investigate and identify issues appropriately. I think it confirmed a lot of what many people suspected anyway. David Stewart: Turning to the bigger ticket item that was discussed in The New York Times, there is this outstanding dispute over a $70 million refund. Based on what I saw, the issues raised with respect to a state and local tax deduction or paying consulting fees, nothing jumped out at me in the same way as it would be one of those crazy tax shelters from the 1990s. This post has been edited for length and clarity. From my perspective, the report identifies various soft spots. I'm always dubious when people say, "Oh yeah, this stuff is definitely going to be leaked.". Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden and his running mate, California Sen. Kamala Harris just released their 2019 tax returns. There are too many variables. It's unlikely we'll settle that on this podcast. The issue is is this going to leave a mark?
Nixon is always the poster child here for playing fast and loose with the tax laws. It seems like an awful lot of information to emerge from the IRS without detection. Certainly I think it's the case if someone just went to Supercuts and tried to claim a deduction on his or her tax return, it would be odd to deduct that. The New York Times account supports that because it refers to a potential settlement in 2016 that was installed by the Congressional Joint Committee on Taxation. That this specific dispute about whether something's a sale or exchange versus an abandonment isn't really a tax shelter issue. Is there some significance to that? Biden's return shows that … Then I became president and everything got stalled." I don't know that these articles to date have really answered that question. There's a reason why it's on bumper stickers and lapel pins and whatever else it's on right now. I'm more inclined to think about whether the public is actually educated about the tax system through disclosures like this. During the 2016 United States presidential campaign, Donald Trump refused to release tax return information, breaking a 40-year precedent of candidates for the presidency doing so. Personally, I never doubted he was under more or less continuous audit. But I think their article's repeatedly saying, "Well, we don't really have the full story here, but this might be going on or this might be going on." One on the South Lawn of the White House on September 30, 2020 in Washington, DC. But without knowing the intricacies of international real estate development and the skills that Ivanka brings or doesn't bring to those transactions, it's just hard for me to read anything positive or negative into it. How well has he been audited since he's been president? Joe Biden also made money from a book tour, and he receives a federal pension. President Trump is scheduled to deliver the speech in front of 1500 invited guests.
I guess he's our new Teflon president. I think it's safe to say that we don't have a lot of examples of aggressive or even somewhat aggressive presidential tax positions because presidents have been very careful not to get themselves in that position. I can't be certain, but I don't think the public is better off and is learning something substantial about how the tax law works through these politically charged battles. President Trump is traveling to Minnesota for a fundraising event and a campaign rally.
(Photo by Scott Olson/Getty Images). Eleven percent said it was completely untrue. I don't have the facts, but I would think it means that perhaps Ivanka has a corporation which provides services that were relevant to these deals. I think the situation is substantially different. I think the question really is: how well has the president been audited? (Photo by Drew Angerer/Getty Images). Andy and I, who don't necessarily see eye to eye on issues of presidential tax transparency all the time, probably do agree that leaks like this are not the way we want information to come out. While 35 percent said it was perfectly acceptable assuming that everything he did was legal. This is the first of three planned debates between the two candidates in the lead up to the election on November 3.
Joe Thorndike: I share Andy's take on this. All sort of made some sense. Joe Thorndike: I think that is probably what it's all about. WASHINGTON — Joe Biden's presidential campaign on Tuesday released the 2019 tax returns for the former vice president and his running mate, Sen. Kamala Harris, D-Calif., hours ahead of the first general election debate.
Even though we have seen leaks from national security officials, White House officials, and so on, the IRS has essentially been a protected vault over the last few years. I think that's because it probably fits a narrative, again as we'd said earlier on about Trump, this idea that he didn't pay any taxes.
If there are tax dodges here, they don't seem terribly clever.
CLEVELAND — Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden released his 2019 tax returns Tuesday afternoon, just hours before his first debate with President Trump in Cleveland. David Stewart: Welcome to the podcast. More sympathetically, it sounds like before appearing on any given episode of "The Apprentice," a stylist had to be brought in to style his hair in a specific way for whatever three hours of taping. Politically, I think that's not necessarily good for the president to confirm that sort of conventional wisdom. The moral of the story is maybe you shouldn't take political advice from your accountants, but it doesn't seem to have worked very well. But I do think it's something that's worth thinking about. His tax returns are not like anyone else's. There have been issues in presidential tax returns, including around deductions, although I can't off the top of my head think of deductions particularly that have been controversial. We should simply expect and demand of presidents that they release this information, just like we expect them to do other kinds of financial disclosure.
A bombshell New York Times report Sunday found that Trump paid only $750 in federal income taxes in 2016 and again in 2017. "He sees the world from his hometown of Scranton, Pennsylvania, and those are the values that Biden will bring to the White House.". So, this may be the reason he was pointing to. Tax Notes contributing editor Joseph J. Thorndike and University of Iowa law professor Andy Grewal take a closer look at the The New York Times reporting on President Trump’s tax returns. What I find more interesting here is the timing, the fact of the leak, and the fact that apparently his biggest tax dispute has been sitting in Congress for a while. Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden and vice presidential running mate Kamala Harris arrive for their first joint news conference in Wilmington, Del., on Aug. 12. I think it's probably pretty common that Hollywood studios or TV studios hire persons to do their representative's hair. Joe, Andy, welcome to the podcast. Andy suggested that he's feeling better about the IRS's ability to do this kind of audit even on a sitting president. As we established, it is not legally required of him to release his tax returns. Of course, our record on this doesn't go back very far. But, I think for trying to get at this long running audit and what role it may have played in keeping the president's return secret, I don't really think it has anything to do with. Of course, I'm now in the line of pure speculation. They've come to terms with that since Nixon.
Arguably if we wanted to learn something about the tax law, we could look at this purported dispute and see how the tax code draws an entirely arbitrary line between economically similar transactions. But the Times' reporting doesn't actually include very much detail at all in some ways, at least not much tax detail really. I suppose it can provide the cover for that claim, "I'm under audit."
David Stewart: Another area that made a lot of headlines, even though it wasn't a very large number involved, but it does appear that there's been a sort of co-mingling of personal and business expenses in these tax returns. The Occam's razor answer here is that they did it to avoid having a zero tax payment. During a pre-debate briefing call with reporters Tuesday afternoon, Biden's deputy campaign manager, Kate Bedingfield, said his latest released return means there are now more than two decades of public tax records for the former vice president. I'm a little uncomfortable with media or pundits or scholars like me trying to play the role of IRS auditor and declare something illegal or legal based on the limited facts we have available. David Stewart: Joe, is it possible that the number itself didn't really matter, but this was so that President Trump could legitimately say, "I have paid taxes for these years," and hope that the actual number does not come out in the future? (Photo by Drew Angerer/Getty Images). It only goes back as far as President Nixon. The Times doesn't identify the relevant banks, but you could find that through a few minutes of Googling. But it seems like what's happened here, as I expected, is that each side will pull on pieces and try to sling mud. But maybe to identify a source of disagreement with Joe, I don't know that the public is better off through these disclosures. I'm less sanguine about that. I think Andy's right. The thing is every president since Nixon who has released their returns has pretty much prepared those returns with the knowledge that they were going to be publicly released.
And again, all of that was done in public, which is different. The fact that this is coming out this way, I think that that should give everyone pause.
Tax returns of U.S. Presidents can provide interesting insights into our leaders. While if you leave a business and by some happenstance you get tiny bit back or the business pays off one of your liabilities at the end, you get totally different capital loss treatment.
I think that's what you typically see. David Stewart: This brings us to the final and the big picture question of the day. WASHINGTON, DC - AUGUST 27: Ivanka Trump, daughter of U.S. President Donald Trump and White House ... [+] adviser, addresses attendees as Trump prepares to deliver his acceptance speech for the Republican presidential nomination on the South Lawn of the White House on August 27, 2020 in Washington, DC.
Joe Thorndike: I think that certainly seems the most obvious truth to me. I don't mean to be critical of the Times in saying this, but they are unwilling to release the returns probably for good reasons. All I can say is that if that was designed to solve a political problem, I think it created its own new political problem because it is such an arbitrary and quite small number that it's open to easy ridicule. It's honestly a weird thing. Is that an unusual arrangement to have? Another 8 percent said mostly untrue. WASHINGTON — Joe Biden's presidential campaign on Tuesday released the 2019 tax returns for the former vice president and his running mate, Sen. Kamala Harris, D … Tax returns were also an issue in 2016, when Trump refused to release them – a precedent set by previous presidential candidates but not … One thing that raised a lot of headlines was these $750 per year payments for two of the later years in this cache of information. I don't think anyone is particularly surprised by that.
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